move 'What about -> Comparisons page
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---
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title: Comparisons
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---
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We think it's important to understand that *Co-op Cloud* is more than just
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software and technical configurations. It is also a novel organization of *how*
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to [create technology socially](https://docs.coopcloud.tech/federation).
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However, strictly technically speaking you may be wondering:
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### What about `$alternative`?
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We have various technical critiques of other similar projects which are already up-and-running in the ecosystem, as they don't necessarily meet our needs as a small tech co-op. However, Co-op Cloud isn't meant to be a replacement for these other projects.
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Here is a short overview of the pros/cons we see, in relation to our goals and needs.
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### Cloudron
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#### Pros
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- 👍 Decent web interface for app, domain & user management.
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- 👍 Large library of apps.
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- 👍 Built-in SSO using LDAP, which is compatible with more apps and often has a better user interface than OAuth.
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- 👍 Apps are actively maintained by the Cloudron team.
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#### Cons
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- 👎 Moving away from open source. The core is now proprietary software.
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- 👎 Libre tier has a single app limit.
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- 👎 Based on Docker images, not stacks, so multi-process apps (e.g. parsoid visual editor for Mediawiki) are a non-starter.
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- 👎 Difficult to extend apps.
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- 👎 Only supported on Ubuntu LTS.
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- 👎 Upstream libre software communities aren't involved in packaging.
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- 👎 Limited to vertical scaling.
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- 👎 Tension between needs of hosting provider and non-technical user.
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- 👎 LDAP introduces security problems - one vulnerable app can expose a user's password for all apps.
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- 👎 Bit of a [black box](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_box).
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### YunoHost
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#### Pros
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- 👍 Lovely web interface for app, domain & user management.
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- 👍 Bigger library of apps.
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- 👍 Awesome backup / deploy / restore continuous integration testing.
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- 👍 Supports hosting apps in subdirectories as well as subdomains.
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- 👍 Doesn't require a public-facing IP.
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- 👍 Supports system-wide mutualisation of resources for apps (e.g. sharing databases by default)
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#### Cons
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- 👎 Upstream libre software communities aren't involved in packaging.
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- 👎 Uninstalling apps leaves growing cruft.
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- 👎 Limited to vertical scaling.
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- 👎 Not intended for use by hosting providers.
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### Caprover
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#### Pros
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- 👍 Bigger library of apps.
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- 👍 Easy set-up using a DigitalOcean one-click app.
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- 👍 Works without a domain name or a public IP, in non-HTTPS mode (good for homeservers).
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- 👍 Deploy any app with a `docker-compose.yml` file as a "One Click App" via the web interface.
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- 👍 Multi-node (multi-server) set-up works by default.
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#### Cons
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- 👎 Single-file app definition format, difficult to tweak using entrypoint scripts.
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- 👎 Nginx instead of Traefik for load-balancing.
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- 👎 Command-line client requires NodeJS / `npm`.
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- 👎 [Requires 512MB RAM for a single app](https://github.com/caprover/caprover/issues/28).
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- 👎 [Backup/restore is "experimental"](https://caprover.com/docs/backup-and-restore.html), and doesn't currently help with backing up Docker volumes.
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- 👎 Exposes its bespoke management interface to the internet via HTTPS by default.
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### Ansible
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#### Pros
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- 👍 Includes server creation and bootstrapping.
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#### Cons
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- 👎 Upstream libre software communities aren't publishing Ansible roles.
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- 👎 Lots of manual work involved in things like app isolation, backups, updates.
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### Kubernetes
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#### Pros
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- 👍 Helm charts are available for some key apps already.
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- 👍 Scale all the things.
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#### Cons
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- 👎 Too big -- requires 3rd party tools to run a single-node instance.
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- 👎 Not suitable for a small to mid size hosting provider.
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### Docker-compose
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#### Pros
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- 👍 Quick to set up and familiar for many developers.
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#### Cons
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- 👎 Manual work required for process monitoring.
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- 👎 Secret storage not available yet.
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- 👎 [Swarm is the new best practice](https://github.com/BretFisher/ama/issues/8#issuecomment-367575011).
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### Doing it Manually (Old School)
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#### Pros
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- 👍 Simple - just follow upstream instructions to install and update.
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#### Cons
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- 👎 Loads of manual work required for app isolation and backups.
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- 👎 Array of sysadmin skills required to install and maintain apps.
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- 👎 Hard to share configurations into the commons.
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- 👎 No idea who has done what change when.
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@ -40,118 +40,6 @@ Also see our [strategy page](../strategy/).
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See ["Package your first recipe"](/maintainers/tutorial/#package-your-first-recipe) for more.
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## What about `$alternative`?
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We have various technical critiques of other similar projects which are already up-and-running in the ecosystem, as they don't necessarily meet our needs as a small tech co-op. However, Co-op Cloud isn't meant to be a replacement for these other projects.
|
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|
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Here is a short overview of the pros/cons we see, in relation to our goals and needs.
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|
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### Cloudron
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|
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#### Pros
|
||||
|
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- 👍 Decent web interface for app, domain & user management.
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- 👍 Large library of apps.
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- 👍 Built-in SSO using LDAP, which is compatible with more apps and often has a better user interface than OAuth.
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- 👍 Apps are actively maintained by the Cloudron team.
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#### Cons
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- 👎 Moving away from open source. The core is now proprietary software.
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- 👎 Libre tier has a single app limit.
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- 👎 Based on Docker images, not stacks, so multi-process apps (e.g. parsoid visual editor for Mediawiki) are a non-starter.
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- 👎 Difficult to extend apps.
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- 👎 Only supported on Ubuntu LTS.
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- 👎 Upstream libre software communities aren't involved in packaging.
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- 👎 Limited to vertical scaling.
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- 👎 Tension between needs of hosting provider and non-technical user.
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- 👎 LDAP introduces security problems - one vulnerable app can expose a user's password for all apps.
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- 👎 Bit of a [black box](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_box).
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### YunoHost
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#### Pros
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- 👍 Lovely web interface for app, domain & user management.
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- 👍 Bigger library of apps.
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- 👍 Awesome backup / deploy / restore continuous integration testing.
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- 👍 Supports hosting apps in subdirectories as well as subdomains.
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- 👍 Doesn't require a public-facing IP.
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- 👍 Supports system-wide mutualisation of resources for apps (e.g. sharing databases by default)
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#### Cons
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- 👎 Upstream libre software communities aren't involved in packaging.
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- 👎 Uninstalling apps leaves growing cruft.
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- 👎 Limited to vertical scaling.
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- 👎 Not intended for use by hosting providers.
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### Caprover
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#### Pros
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- 👍 Bigger library of apps.
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- 👍 Easy set-up using a DigitalOcean one-click app.
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- 👍 Works without a domain name or a public IP, in non-HTTPS mode (good for homeservers).
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- 👍 Deploy any app with a `docker-compose.yml` file as a "One Click App" via the web interface.
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- 👍 Multi-node (multi-server) set-up works by default.
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#### Cons
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- 👎 Single-file app definition format, difficult to tweak using entrypoint scripts.
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- 👎 Nginx instead of Traefik for load-balancing.
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- 👎 Command-line client requires NodeJS / `npm`.
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- 👎 [Requires 512MB RAM for a single app](https://github.com/caprover/caprover/issues/28).
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- 👎 [Backup/restore is "experimental"](https://caprover.com/docs/backup-and-restore.html), and doesn't currently help with backing up Docker volumes.
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- 👎 Exposes its bespoke management interface to the internet via HTTPS by default.
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### Ansible
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#### Pros
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- 👍 Includes server creation and bootstrapping.
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#### Cons
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- 👎 Upstream libre software communities aren't publishing Ansible roles.
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- 👎 Lots of manual work involved in things like app isolation, backups, updates.
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### Kubernetes
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#### Pros
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- 👍 Helm charts are available for some key apps already.
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- 👍 Scale all the things.
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#### Cons
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- 👎 Too big -- requires 3rd party tools to run a single-node instance.
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- 👎 Not suitable for a small to mid size hosting provider.
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### Docker-compose
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#### Pros
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- 👍 Quick to set up and familiar for many developers.
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#### Cons
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- 👎 Manual work required for process monitoring.
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- 👎 Secret storage not available yet.
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- 👎 [Swarm is the new best practice](https://github.com/BretFisher/ama/issues/8#issuecomment-367575011).
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### Doing it Manually (Old School)
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#### Pros
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- 👍 Simple - just follow upstream instructions to install and update.
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#### Cons
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- 👎 Loads of manual work required for app isolation and backups.
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- 👎 Array of sysadmin skills required to install and maintain apps.
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- 👎 Hard to share configurations into the commons.
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- 👎 No idea who has done what change when.
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## Which technologies are used?
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@ -54,6 +54,7 @@ nav:
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- index.md
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- "Frequently asked questions": intro/faq.md
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- "Project strategy": intro/strategy.md
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- "Comparisons": intro/comparisons.md
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- "Project status": intro/bikemap.md
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- "Managed hosting": intro/managed.md
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- "Get in touch": intro/contact.md
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